KOS At Novaya 2019-10-21, 22:25ish

ShrimpRP · October 21

Server and location: S1 Novaya Petrovka

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 22:25 ish

Your in game name: Semaj Jemerson

Names of allies involved: @JimRP

Name of suspect/s: @NathSnr, @jamescameron, @Arthur Steen

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): Two red cars.

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): https://streamable.com/rf2ja

Detailed description of the events: We spot a car on the road and try to block it's path. We succeed at doing so and and proceed to talk to those people. We ask for licenses, gun and driving one. We explain to them the political situation and the man agrees to drop an ak, pulls out an m4 and blasts me. Wild.

Realize · October 21

Connection Logs:

Spoiler

21:30:01 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" is connected
- Dead -
22:25:50 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" has been disconnected

21:31:19 | Player "John Kovacs" is connected
- Dead -
22:25:59 | Player "John Kovacs" has been disconnected

22:18:39 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" is connected
- Currently Connected -

21:31:11 | Player "Magnus Jensen" is connected
- Dead -
22:25:55 | Player "Magnus Jensen" has been disconnected

21:32:28 | Player "Arthur Steen" is connected
- Dead -
22:26:36 | Player "Arthur Steen" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

22:25:23 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" hit by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 5.1971 meters
22:25:24 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" hit by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 5.3726 meters
22:25:24 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" hit by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 5.76805 meters
22:25:24 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" hit by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 5.76805 meters

22:25:25 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.8575 meters
22:25:26 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.8504 meters
22:25:26 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.8274 meters
22:25:26 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.8182 meters
22:25:27 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.9625 meters
22:25:28 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 13.7439 meters
22:25:28 | Player "John Kovacs" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 13.7439 meters
22:25:29 | Player "Magnus Jensen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.4434 meters
22:25:29 | Player "Magnus Jensen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.4434 meters
22:25:29 | Player "Magnus Jensen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.3247 meters
22:25:33 | Player "Magnus Jensen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 14.8629 meters
22:25:51 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 7.15504 meters
22:25:51 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 7.43017 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.05679 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.05679 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.19096 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.19096 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" hit by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.19096 meters

22:25:26 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" hit by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 11.849 meters

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

22:25:23 | Player "Semaj Jamerson" (DEAD) killed by Player "John Kovacs" with M4A1 from 5.1971 meters

22:25:27 | Player "John Kovacs" (DEAD) killed by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 11.9625 meters
22:25:33 | Player "Magnus Jensen" (DEAD) killed by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 14.8629 meters
22:25:53 | Player "Arthur Steen" (DEAD) killed by Player "Dimitri Tarasov" with M4A1 from 6.05679 meters

NathSnr · October 21

Having been robbed by Anarchy before, my character is well aware of the kind of people they are. You swerved into the path of an oncoming car whilst both of us were travelling at high speeds which is super NVFL, then proceeded to start questioning us on licenses and making veiled comments about not trusting us to register. You dropped your guard and I made a judgement which backfired due to me going full retard with my aim. My friends attempted to get out of the car but, DayZ being what it is, sadly both of their games froze.

Tl;dr Anarchy shakedown, we all know that means, plus long bouts of silence from you guys leads me to believe you're communicating with others so we dealt with it quickly.

JimRP · October 21

I didn't swerve into your car, the server was lagging so horribly that when I saw you (I had already been going left side, then quickly tried to go right as soon as I saw you) the car desynced to the left and crashed (almost), but I used the breaks and stopped it before it could kill me and Oiram. On-top of that we survived, you guys also weren't speeding and stopped way before us. This wasn't a shakedown and you're lying in your POV, we didn't once initiate on you (until you KOS'd Oiram at which point I initiated on the people who were still in the car), make a demand or anything like that. We were being nice and were about to leave, when you decided to KOS Oiram. Your friends were initiated multiple times and could clearly hear me initiating and decided to attempt to get out of the car while a gun is aimed at them, which is the only NVFL I can see here. After your second friend died, I initiated on the third who also did the same thing as the second guy and he also died.

Long story short: We are driving north, Oiram sees someone and I try to swerve the other way but the car desynced left but I luckily slowed it down and we both got out, talking to the people in the car. My exact words were "Alright, you guys stay in the car." I didn't point my gun at them, I didn't make any demands and I wasn't even yelling at them or showed any hostile intent. Afterwards we told the driver to come out, asked him if he had a driving license and a gun license at which point he said no and gave me his AKM, he even said he didn't want it and had nothing for it. I went to go put it inside our car and at that point he KOS'd Oiram. After he killed Oiram I dropped him, initiated on his friends who were still inside the car with the doors closed. The second guy I killed tried to get out and make a run for it and he gets dropped, the same happens with the third guy.

We tried to speak with John Kovacs on Discord but he refused to because he needed to go to bed because of work and from what I understood OP and his friends just didn't want to bother to RP with us and just wanted to go back to their base and log off.

On-top of that "long bouts of silence" doesn't mean we're communicating with others, if we were we'd have to hotmic it. Regardless "dealing with it quickly" doesn't mean KOSing the person, you weren't initiated and you had no rights on Oiram. You KOS'd him and then tried to KOS me, your friends technically didn't do anything wrong but considering the fact that they were inside the car, got initiated with their guns on their backs I'd personally see that as NVFL (them trying to make a run for it).

Edited October 21 by JimRP

jamescameron · October 22

My POV:

John, Arthur and I were driving through Novaya and DayZ and we saw the other car coming towards us.

With DayZ being super buggy with vehicles PLUS the server being laggy as it is we stopped the car and pulled over to the side. The other car also came to a stop, and was saved from almost crashing into either the wall or us. Semaj and Dimitri immediately leave their car and start approaching our car.

I open the door to get out and talk to them, but they instantly draw weapons and threaten us all to stay inside the car, implying we will get shot or hurt if we do not comply. This was a hostile encounter right off the bat.

We all comply and stay inside the car. Semaj and Dimitri then start talking about licenses, how we need one for the car, for our guns, and that we need to go to their base to get one. The insistence for these licenses make it clear that to Semaj and Dimitri it's not optional.

At this point they seem confused about how to proceed, as they mention not trusting us to go to their base.

We play dumb and unknowing for now. Semaj and Dimitri tell John to step out and us to stay inside the car.

Dimitri remarks how John is carrying two primary weapons, which in their view is illegal. John makes a point out of dropping the weapon on the ground in order to comply with their licencing rules.

Dimitri picks up the gun and starts walking back to their car to stash it. While Dimitri is distracted, John opens fire and kills Semaj.

I immediately exit the car to assist John, but exiting cars in DayZ has a habit of making my game turn into a PowerPoint presentation (read: 3 FPS) the only thing I see on my screen before I die is my character exiting the car, putting his weapon is his hands and being shot dead.

I don't believe it to be NVFL because after John shoots Semaj, we are 3 on 1, equally armed and I (possibly Arthur too) am on my way out of the car to assist John.

If we look at it from an IC perspective I also believe this was valid. The day before this encounter John and I are at NWAF looking for supplies. We get approached by a group of people who identify themselves to be part of "Anarchy". They are instantly agressively talking about their licencing system. We express some interest, but tell them we will do it later. This leads to a violent response from the group, who holds us at gunpoint, robs, threatens and humiliates our characters.

So given that in this encounter we are approached by two people who are with the same group, talk the same way about licenses and without us speaking a word draw guns on us, it is only fair to assume from the perspective of our characters that this will end with us all held at gunpoint, robbed, threatened and humiliated unless we try to fight back. We fought back, unsuccesfully.

Also for @Realize, @Arthur Steen told us yesterday OOC that he won't be on much if at all this week because of work and real life commitments, so don't expect his POV.

JimRP · October 22

4 hours ago, jamescameron said:

My POV:

John, Arthur and I were driving through Novaya and DayZ and we saw the other car coming towards us.

With DayZ being super buggy with vehicles PLUS the server being laggy as it is we stopped the car and pulled over to the side. The other car also came to a stop, and was saved from almost crashing into either the wall or us. Semaj and Dimitri immediately leave their car and start approaching our car.

I open the door to get out and talk to them, but they instantly draw weapons and threaten us all to stay inside the car, implying we will get shot or hurt if we do not comply. This was a hostile encounter right off the bat.

We all comply and stay inside the car. Semaj and Dimitri then start talking about licenses, how we need one for the car, for our guns, and that we need to go to their base to get one. The insistence for these licenses make it clear that to Semaj and Dimitri it's not optional.

At this point they seem confused about how to proceed, as they mention not trusting us to go to their base.

We play dumb and unknowing for now. Semaj and Dimitri tell John to step out and us to stay inside the car.

Dimitri remarks how John is carrying two primary weapons, which in their view is illegal. John makes a point out of dropping the weapon on the ground in order to comply with their licencing rules.

Dimitri picks up the gun and starts walking back to their car to stash it. While Dimitri is distracted, John opens fire and kills Semaj.

I immediately exit the car to assist John, but exiting cars in DayZ has a habit of making my game turn into a PowerPoint presentation (read: 3 FPS) the only thing I see on my screen before I die is my character exiting the car, putting his weapon is his hands and being shot dead.

I don't believe it to be NVFL because after John shoots Semaj, we are 3 on 1, equally armed and I (possibly Arthur too) am on my way out of the car to assist John.

If we look at it from an IC perspective I also believe this was valid. The day before this encounter John and I are at NWAF looking for supplies. We get approached by a group of people who identify themselves to be part of "Anarchy". They are instantly agressively talking about their licencing system. We express some interest, but tell them we will do it later. This leads to a violent response from the group, who holds us at gunpoint, robs, threatens and humiliates our characters.

So given that in this encounter we are approached by two people who are with the same group, talk the same way about licenses and without us speaking a word draw guns on us, it is only fair to assume from the perspective of our characters that this will end with us all held at gunpoint, robbed, threatened and humiliated unless we try to fight back. We fought back, unsuccesfully.

Also for @Realize, @Arthur Steen told us yesterday OOC that he won't be on much if at all this week because of work and real life commitments, so don't expect his POV.

We didn't threaten you to stay inside the car, we asked you to stay inside the car - we never initiated on you. You can clearly see that from the clip that Oiram had posted, no one had their hands up, no one was yelling, no one was pointing guns and we were being completely calm with the lot of you. Even in your clip your friend asks me if I want the AKM and I was like 'sure'. Do you think that if it was an initiation I'd just look away and go stash a gun? I think you guys misunderstood the situation and took this for something it wasn't, in this case that being an initiation. I'm sorry but no matter which way you try to portray this it is quite clear that you guys jumped the gun in this situation and killed Oiram for no reason and then attempted to kill me too, which I guess in the latter it's fair since I ACTUALLY initiated on you (the last two people). But the first person jumped the gun for no apparent reason.

Also I'm not quite sure about the second person I killed whether he was already out the car or not but I am very certain that the last person who was also initiated got out of the vehicle last, after his friend was killed and he was re-initiated. He opened his door with both guns on his back and tried to make a run for it while I was standing right there and in this case died, which is why I think it's NVFL. I'd understand if the three of you were outside already but it's in my opinion different when you guys come outside a car one by one after witnessing your friends die, hence why I brought NVFL up.

Edited October 22 by JimRP

Saunders · October 22

As @Arthur Steen hasn't been on the forums since October 9th, he has been temp banned until he provides his full and detailed POV, alongside any un-edited VIDEO EVIDENCE that he has.

jamescameron · October 23

19 hours ago, Saunders said:

As @Arthur Steen hasn't been on the forums since October 9th, he has been temp banned until he provides his full and detailed POV, alongside any un-edited VIDEO EVIDENCE that he has.

He told me OOC on Monday that he won't be on for this whole week.

Realize · October 23

@OiramRP Can you post the full unedited version of your video evidence.

ShrimpRP · October 23

@Realize That's my full unedited version of my video evidence. I can screen share with you on discord if need be.

Phoenix · October 24

Verdict

@NathSnr - Invalid Kill (Roleplayed) - Guilty

Explanation

A team of staff have examined this report and have come to the conclusion that @NathSnr will receive a standard punishment for invalidly killing @OiramRP.

To quickly recap this situation, @JimRP and @OiramRP begin speaking to the passengers of a car about gun licenses and ask everyone to remain inside of the car whilst he speaks to the driver @NathSnr on the road. No initiation or threats to anyone's life took place in this situation and @JimRP & @OiramRP remain calm and reasonable during the entire situation. Suddenly, @NathSnr decides to use defender rights he never received from this situation to run around the car and kill @OiramRP, he then meets his own death when @JimRP shoots back at him.

@NathSnr, You did not gain any defender rights from this situation whatsoever. You cannot simply assume that just because anarchy are talking to you about gun licenses, something is about to go down. You shot and killed @OiramRP. There was never an initiation by anarchy, therefore your kill was invalid.

Quote

4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

4.2 When your life is at risk or you are subjected to a hostile action by other players you are allowed to defend yourself. This is granted by two different "kill rights" that you can gain based on circumstances of the situation like which side caused the hostile situation and which side you are on.

You must not under any circumstances kill another player just because you assume that they might initiate. You always have to either initiate yourself to gain attacker rights or wait for them to initiate in order to gain defender rights.

We highly suggest that you refresh yourself on the rules of our server as you do not seem to understand the concept of when you can and cannot shoot someone, which is one of the most important rules in order to be able to play on our servers.

Outcome

@NathSnr - Invalid Kill (Roleplayed) - 3 day ban + 10 warning points

@Arthur Steen will have to create a ban appeal with his POV to this report in order to get his temp-ban lifted, as he failed to post on this report since being called in.

Signed: @Phoenix @Rover

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KOS At Novaya 2019-10-21, 22:25ish

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