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Squillium

Ignoring the Communities Wishes

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Yeah bro. Why was my child RP thread ignored and closed. There were over 100 that voted (which is probably consisting of the most active players). But my thread was ignored despite 60% votes to ban it and for good reason. I thought the trader idea was a good idea ONLY because I thought we couldn’t monetize mod items. Well we can. So why is it being added? Let groups and people form merchant areas. Not an NPC. 

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I agree with you, I think that the admin team should reconsider adding fast travel. After reading through the post about upcoming mods and seeing that fast travel had 3X more votes for no than yes, I thought it very strange that @Roland said that they were planning to add it anyway. Maybe they should re-vote on that specific mod to get a more accurate response.

Edited by Mintei
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Every day I see things on these forums that just push me further and further away from getting on again.

We add ideas and deny ideas for the sake of RP according to the Staff but adding Fast travel and Trader NPCs is legit taking RP away from players around you. Now all we're going to have are people constantly doing laps around the airfield/military bases and gathering whatever they can find, hoarding it and selling it as some sort of DayZ rendition of Escape from Tarkov and obviously since there's no danger in these areas as long as you keep out of VOIP range you should be fine. People are literally going to grind instead of RPing and when they aren't grinding all they'll do is camp in the SafeZone. 

We shouldn't be adding SafeZones we should be adding KOS zones to stop people from going into military bases without any ounce of fear. This will promote better weapons spawns and leave more people going to certain areas of the map for safety.

✊ Add KOS zones ✊

 

Edited by Finn

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Said it on the other thread, but decisions should be made by people actively playing the game. There is no way of knowing what fits the community unless you go IG and actually experience how the RP on the server is.

6 minutes ago, Finn said:

✊ Add KOS zones ✊

Always was against them, but at this point I am actually with you on this one.

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A lot of people voting on the mods have shown clear lack of understanding how these mods work and how they will be set up, despite me writing a description in the thread with the poll. They are blindly voting no based on how the mods work on other servers, completely disregarding our own custom plan for them. This has been clearly shown after speaking to some people on Discord who had completely wrong understanding on how these two mods (Fast Travel and Traders) are intended to work here on DayZRP. They thought it's going to be a universal and free teleportation so you can just jump between locations all day long and that the traders will be selling everything they need and all the best weapons.

I have therefore decided to proceed with them despite the negative poll outcome so that these people can experience first hand how these mods will work in game and then make another poll whether to keep them or not.

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I don't think taking a small sample of the community who can't read clearly is a fair assessment. This is basically bloody brexit. You should go with the assumption that MOST of YOUR community should, can and do understand what the system is that you want to put in place. You're basically saying here: Well, you didn't understand and so we're going ahead because you're idiots. 

No.

I think 90% of people quite clearly understand what they are voting for and what they want. We do not need a second referendum, we should stick with the first vote. Fair enough, you want to expand and develop the community and it's modpack further, that's excellent and I commend you, but clearly, these mods and ideas are not wanted by the majority. Please, don't make that majority then have to go through a phase of turmoil and annoyance, simply because you think it's the right thing to do because you think we can't read and understand. 

You asked the community, the community said no. You don't help people by ignoring their vote, you anger them.

@Roland

Edited by ToeZies

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To be honest, I don't think "trying" out mods will hurt anyone, I get the points raised from both sides and I'm on the fence personally. I don't think community ideals were ignored, more just put aside for the time being due to people just (as roland stated) blindly voting or going with the majority without reading more into it.

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59 minutes ago, Roland said:

A lot of people voting on the mods have shown clear lack of understanding how these mods work and how they will be set up, despite me writing a description in the thread with the poll. They are blindly voting no based on how the mods work on other servers, completely disregarding our own custom plan for them. This has been clearly shown after speaking to some people on Discord who had completely wrong understanding on how these two mods (Fast Travel and Traders) are intended to work here on DayZRP. They thought it's going to be a universal and free teleportation so you can just jump between locations all day long and that the traders will be selling everything they need and all the best weapons.

I have therefore decided to proceed with them despite the negative poll outcome so that these people can experience first hand how these mods will work in game and then make another poll whether to keep them or not.

Pretty much what ToeZies said. I get what you want, I understand it's not as bad as Skyrim teleportation or something stupid like that. I, and it seems like a lot of people, don't want teleportation, period. This is not the game for it and certainly not the community for it. Using the idea that everyone's too ignorant to understand completely undermines the vote in the first place.

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

A lot of people voting on the mods have shown clear lack of understanding how these mods work and how they will be set up, despite me writing a description in the thread with the poll. They are blindly voting no based on how the mods work on other servers, completely disregarding our own custom plan for them. This has been clearly shown after speaking to some people on Discord who had completely wrong understanding on how these two mods (Fast Travel and Traders) are intended to work here on DayZRP. They thought it's going to be a universal and free teleportation so you can just jump between locations all day long and that the traders will be selling everything they need and all the best weapons.

I have therefore decided to proceed with them despite the negative poll outcome so that these people can experience first hand how these mods will work in game and then make another poll whether to keep them or not.

I actually think this is a good choice of action. Nobody knows for certain if this is going to help the server and i think trying it out will help make it clearer. Pretty much what @CrescentGent said. It does not hurt to try it out and see if it works or not. Good choice of action El Presidente!

Also this place did not become what it is because it was a "democracy" because let's be frank that's not an efficient way to run things. And yes as seen from the discord it is clear people voted without reading the thread which is why the polls cannot be trusted since it's just based of the title of the thread. 

To give an example, this was also a thing when the topic of rapeRP was being discussed. The thread title was "ban rapeRP" and when people hear the word "rape" they obviously don't think that consent is in fact involved. This caused 80%+ to vote for banning said RP from simply just reading the title alone. This is why you cannot just say "oh but people voted for it, so we can't do it" We need Enlightened Despotism, not Democracy. 

This has been my TED Talk, thanks for coming.

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16 minutes ago, NozzyRP said:

I actually think this is a good choice of action. Nobody knows for certain if this is going to help the server and i think trying it out will help make it clearer. Pretty much what @CrescentGent said. It does not hurt to try it out and see if it works or not. Good choice of action El Presidente!

Also this place did not become what it is because it was a "democracy" because let's be frank that's not an efficient way to run things. And yes as seen from the discord it is clear people voted without reading the thread which is why the polls cannot be trusted since it's just based of the title of the thread. 

To give an example, this was also a thing when the topic of rapeRP was being discussed. The thread title was "ban rapeRP" and when people hear the word "rape" they obviously don't think that consent is in fact involved. This caused 80%+ to vote for banning said RP from simply just reading the title alone. This is why you cannot just say "oh but people voted for it, so we can't do it" We need Enlightened Despotism, not Democracy. 

This has been my TED Talk, thanks for coming.

No.

If Rolle wants to add something because he thinks it's best despite what the community thinks, fine, I can accept that I'm not paying for the place. But calling people uninformed as an excuse not to listen to them is very counterproductive. I understand what he's trying to do, I understand it'll be optimized for "our server", but the idea of teleportation in DayZ at all goes against everything this game is about. If a sky base mod was added people wouldn't be saying, "We'll just try it", because it doesn't belong here.

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Somewhere around 600 unique different players connect to DayZRP's server throughout a day as of late, and back when these community vote polls were created there was still around 500 unique players playing on the servers.

However, these polls only ever got 100 votes, usually less, which averages at around 16.6% of the active players at the time, or 20%~ if we are going with "500" active players. (You can see these stats on the front page here)

 

That's not a community vote, when you have barely a 6th of the active community represented in the poll.

Throwing percentages around like crazy is an easy way to get your point across, saying 60% this or 70% that, the percentage is worth fuck-all if only 50 people voted on the damn poll.

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Just now, Ducky said:

Somewhere around 600 unique different players connect to DayZRP's server throughout a day as of late, and back when these community vote polls were created no more than 100 people, usually less vote on them.

 

That's not a community vote, when you have barely a 6th of the active community represented in the poll.

Throwing percentages around like crazy is an easy way to get your point across, saying 60% this or 70% that, the percentage is worth fuck-all if only 50 people voted on the damn poll.

Then it's a control group. What makes you think taking the entire communities vote would be that different? Also, the people that do vote tend to be more active and influential on the server anyway so your point seems moot. If it was a close vote sure, but the more you increase the poll size the less getting the entire population matters.

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2 minutes ago, Squillium said:

Then it's a control group. What makes you think taking the entire communities vote would be that different? Also, the people that do vote tend to be more active and influential on the server anyway so your point seems moot. If it was a close vote sure, but the more you increase the poll size the less getting the entire population matters.

If you want a community vote it should represent the entire community, not just a fraction of it, that is the point.

I did add some more to my post so feel free to read that as well.

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2 minutes ago, Ducky said:

If you want a community vote it should represent the entire community, not just a fraction of it, that is the point.

I did add some more to my post so feel free to read that as well.

Yea that's fair but since it's an open poll anyone can vote in it seems fair to respect the decision. If people have differing opinions on how the server is handled then they should go on the forums and voice it. A poll isn't made invalid because people who choose not to vote don't vote.

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11 minutes ago, Squillium said:

Yea that's fair but since it's an open poll anyone can vote in it seems fair to respect the decision. If people have differing opinions on how the server is handled then they should go on the forums and voice it. A poll isn't made invalid because people who choose not to vote don't vote.

If 30 people vote on a poll which changes the game for 600 players, should that poll be considered valid and the outcome of it respected?

 

Where do we draw the percentage line of what is a big enough poll to affect the full community?

 

In Denmark roughly 85% of our total population vote. (I can send some sources but they're difficult to read if you don't speak Danish)

In the United States I believe that number is somewhere closer to 50%. (Guess-timate based off of a list of percentage turnout I found up to 2016, of which it was steadily decreasing each year.)

 

We are talking about 15-20% voter turnout here, that to me is not enough to represent a community vote.

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14 minutes ago, Ducky said:

If 30 people vote on a poll which changes the game for 600 players, should that poll be considered valid and the outcome of it respected?

 

Where do we draw the percentage line of what is a big enough poll to affect the full community?

 

In Denmark roughly 85% of our total population vote. (I can send some sources but they're difficult to read if you don't speak Danish)

In the United States I believe that number is somewhere closer to 50%. (Guess-timate based off of a list of percentage turnout I found up to 2016, of which it was steadily decreasing each year.)

 

We are talking about 15-20% voter turnout here, that to me is not enough to represent a community vote.

But then the polls will never matter unless an admin pins it. Usually when a poll is going one way that means a majority would vote the same does it not? What’s the point in me doing all these polls when the biggest turnout I’ve had is just over 100. Big changes to the server are being made but only 60-100 turnout for the poll. 
 

do we need some sort of dayzrp Supreme Court or something. 

Edited by ZeroRP

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Ain’t gonna lie, adding more mods that maybe other communities have and make the game easier (npc’s and fast travel) and more appealing for the causal player (bright coloured guns) brings in more new players. 
In short your answer why it got ignored MONEY.

Brings more people in makes more money.

It is no longer a RP community it is a dayZRP LIFE server. 
That’s why the community and that outstandingly huge vote against traders and fast travel was ignored

Edited by noir

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1 minute ago, ZeroRP said:

But then the polls will never matter unless an admin pins it. Usually when a poll is going one way that means a majority would vote the same does it not? What’s the point in me doing all these polls when the biggest turnout I’ve had is just over 100. Big changes to the server are being made but only 60-100 turnout for the poll. 

I think this is what we need to be looking at then, what can we do to increase awareness of community-wide polls and get more people to vote, rather than simply taking the opinion of a fraction of the community and applying it to everyone.

Seen in the very own community poll that Rolle posted here, this poll had a much greater turnout of 238 people, which is significantly closer to the 50% mark than 16%

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Just now, Ducky said:

I think this is what we need to be looking at then, what can we do to increase awareness of community-wide polls and get more people to vote, rather than simply taking the opinion of a fraction of the community and applying it to everyone.

Seen in the very own community poll that Rolle posted here, this poll had a much greater turnout of 238 people, which is significantly closer to the 50% mark than 16%

Yeah but don’t you think that’s a lot of work? I mean I make polls on what seems like a weekly maybe bi weekly basis lately. Something might seem important to me but not important to admin. Obviously I would like to see that suggestion be taken but I doubt it would pan out. 

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The server belongs to Roland. Not to the community.

Therefore, "democracy" has nothing to do here.

These polls serve to give him ideas about how to improve his server/business, but should not force the admins to do what the majority wants.

I have other complains... particularly one BIG one... (about the amount of permabanned people) but, "ignoring the community's wishes" is not a problem for me, at all.

This said... I guess that we will have to try these new mods, and give our feedback afterwards! XD!

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Honestly, if we considered the majority's desires and committed to them fully, we'd be a sinking shit instantly. Most people simply don't know how things work on the back end. I don't even know, and I don't know if what I'm saying is even correct.

I'd rather they focus on what people want removed than what people want to be added. My opinions on things that should be removed are much stronger than of things I want added, and I'm sure the things I want added aren't always possible.

So yeah, democracy doesn't work here.

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6 minutes ago, Angel said:

Honestly, if we considered the majority's desires and committed to them fully, we'd be a sinking shit instantly. Most people simply don't know how things work on the back end. I don't even know, and I don't know if what I'm saying is even correct.

I'd rather they focus on what people want removed than what people want to be added. My opinions on things that should be removed are much stronger than of things I want added, and I'm sure the things I want added aren't always possible.

So yeah, democracy doesn't work here.

I can respect that if it's in terms of the community voting to change something and Rolle says no. Anything that changes the status quo could potentially hurt the community. But when staff/Rolle are in favor of a change that could potentially hurt the community that's currently doing well and a majority want to keep an aspect of the game as-is then why change it? There's way more potential for a negative effect on server pop than a good one. I'm all for new mods, and there's probably few that a majority would be against, but this is one.

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1 hour ago, Angel said:

Honestly, if we considered the majority's desires and committed to them fully, we'd be a sinking shit instantly. Most people simply don't know how things work on the back end. I don't even know, and I don't know if what I'm saying is even correct.

I'd rather they focus on what people want removed than what people want to be added. My opinions on things that should be removed are much stronger than of things I want added, and I'm sure the things I want added aren't always possible.

So yeah, democracy doesn't work here.

Thing is a bunch of people don’t want certain things removed but they’re being removed anyways.... 

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