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Gradwitz

A question about some of the currently implemented rules intended to spark discussion.

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This is sort of a snip of another post I was making, but really didn't fit in there. I decided to make it it's own post and am genuinely curious to hear what you think about the following.

Regarding the NVFL rule

How is it fair that someone who holds true to their character, is executed for their actions or inaction, then can also be reported for holding no value for their characters life? I know this isn't always the case and people abuse that and it may not be as extreme as I am interpreting, but consider the following:

My character is an army vet, trained to not let up information and trained to withstand torture. 

I am captured and tortured for information. I stay in character and refuse to give information, I am told that if I continue to refuse to give up information I will be executed, I continue to refuse, hence I am executed. 

In this situation I believe everyone involved is in the right. As I am interpreting the rules from what I have read, I would possibly be reported for "not valuing my life". 

Is this an accurate assumption? If it was poor rp, or metagame shenanigans, then that's different, but if all involved played their characters true, then I don't see why that would be considered a reportable offence.

I would like to add that sometimes people value the safety of their friends and family, or their faction, over the value of their own life. I would hope that I am incorrect of my initial assumptions and interpretation of this rule. 

 

What are your thoughts and how might you handle this situation, and if there was no NVFL rule? (assuming all involved were playing their characters as intended)

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I would agree with you if you would actually PK the character after. If not then everyone can just make a character like that and never bother to follow the NVFL rule only to respawn and continue on their merry way as if nothing happened.

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Feel like it's a case by case and multiple factors play into a situation such as that, such as:

- You mention that your character is an Army Vet. Are we talking, served for many years or just a few? SAS level of training or just a soldier that gets deployed into the field for a few months before coming home?

- Everybody has their limits as a person, eventually the human instinct kicks in and you'll do whatever you can to get out of that situation, whether that means giving up vital information or not.

- The hostage takers could've done a little more RP with you instead of giving you a set amount of time or they execute you. I personally dislike executions, the word usually means that you are killed, never to be heard from again. Yet you'll more than likely meet that person again within the next few hours, granted the NLR prevents the use of previous info but nevertheless, it's awkward. But yeah, instead of giving a set amount of warnings before killing you, they could've dragged it out over weeks of constant kidnappings etc. 

Personally, you did what you could, if your character is hardened vet who never gives up info then you did what your character would do.

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I believe in killing off a character should that character die in a valid rp way. My current character, Richard, was killed accidentially in a FF situation and I figured it was probably alright to just pretend he was knocked out instead. If I enter a situation and end up dying as a result of the situation going that way, I will kill off the character and think people should do the same. Of course, as long as it's valid.

2 minutes ago, CrescentGent said:

Feel like it's a case by case and multiple factors play into a situation such as that, such as:

- You mention that your character is an Army Vet. Are we talking, served for many years or just a few? SAS level of training or just a soldier that gets deployed into the field for a few months before coming home?

- Everybody has their limits as a person, eventually the human instinct kicks in and you'll do whatever you can to get out of that situation, whether that means giving up vital information or not.

- The hostage takers could've done a little more RP with you instead of giving you a set amount of time or they execute you. I personally dislike executions, the word usually means that you are killed, never to be heard from again. Yet you'll more than likely meet that person again within the next few hours, granted the NLR prevents the use of previous info but nevertheless, it's awkward. But yeah, instead of giving a set amount of warnings before killing you, they could've dragged it out over weeks of constant kidnappings etc. 

Personally, you did what you could, if your character is hardened vet who never gives up info then you did what your character would do.

I was giving an example, not quoting something that had happened to me. I appreciate the thought and see your points, though know many people don't think the way I do. 

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Posted (edited)

If I were to do that to protect my friends and the people I care about then I should PK as that is what fits the situation and not just act like they missed by an inch.

Edited by Eagle

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Just now, Eagle said:

If I were to do that to protect my friends and the people I care about then I would PK.

What do you mean?

If you were held hostage, tied up, and being tortured, how would you pk? Unless that doesn't mean Player Kill.

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Just now, Gradwitz said:

What do you mean?

If you were held hostage, tied up, and being tortured, how would you pk? Unless that doesn't mean Player Kill.

Pk means Perma kill as in if they have me hostage torture me and I refuse to give them the details they want I should PK if they kill me.

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Just now, Eagle said:

Pk means Perma kill as in if they have me hostage torture me and I refuse to give them the details they want I should PK if they kill me.

Oh, right, that makes sense. I agree with that. 

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I general I agree with dying to good RP.

However most of us only see the story we have with said person. What if they created that character to experience a certain RP or story that maybe only this character in its unique situation and skill set and connection can live out? Say the RP is build up over month to one day get there but you don't plan your encounters so you hope and wait for it to happen naturally. Now just Before you get there, you get the best cannibal interaction anyone could possibly give to anyone on the server and they wish to kill you for it, but if you follow that death everything you build and worked for is gone and to just make a similar character with similar skills seems so cheap plus you would still have to do the build up again. With the possibility of doing all the work for nothing once more.

Now if you did follow that death the consequence is they run around and tell people they killed you and you are dead.. but people get mostly just as mad with others when they farted in your face as if they killed you. SO if you played out they just farted in your face instead of shooting it? What would really be different for them? Would they suddenly miss out on that I killed a real person RP? because those that perma people... seem to more or less just shrug off the experience and never mention all their murders or show a different act for the character they murdered with.... so all your effort ruined for the little trade of the other party just feeling a bit awkward if they see you again?

All that good rp still happened between you two, just because you didn't die doesn't make that not happen. People do not IC need to die for something to end or OOC be banned from the forums. Maybe our mindset should go to how can i get along with the person instead of remove them, one or the other way or even ignore them because they don't show me the behavior I think they should?

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It is not a problem until you make it a problem.

What I am trying to say with this is that if you don't make a report almost noone will know you died.
I know that in some cases people just make the random decision to try and kill 5 v 1. That is indeed something that should be reported.
But if it is the case that someone doesn't want to give out information and get executed it shouldn't be reported.

This is ofcourse my oppinion, but it is just something to think about.

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I agree with the other comments here that if you decide to go a certain route because thats what your character would do, putting the NVFL rule in a suitcase marked RP, then you should PK if thats what you go with.

we cant have people being invincible from NVFL just because their character would never give info, then the next day rock up as if nothing happened. Meanwhile the people whose storyline you destroyed have to continue with nothing.

My priest isnt afraid of death, it will bring him closer to god etc. but i will PK him if that happens through RP, without a doubt.

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14 hours ago, Gradwitz said:

-snip-

 

As stated in the post above from Rolle himself:

Quote

"Since lying is in my opinion not a valid reason to execute someone, the kill on the hostage is invalid and NVFL will be removed."

You cannot be executed for lying at the current time, it will be considered an invalid execution and thus you can't be found guilty of NVFL for lying.

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26 minutes ago, Ducky said:

 

As stated in the post above from Rolle himself:

You cannot be executed for lying at the current time, it will be considered an invalid execution and thus you can't be found guilty of NVFL for lying.

Does it matter how outrageous and obvious the lie is? You can pretty much lie and deny anything and everything and its invalid? 

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17 minutes ago, Aisling said:

Does it matter how outrageous and obvious the lie is? You can pretty much lie and deny anything and everything and its invalid? 

🤷‍♂️

 

I wouldn't know, all I have to go from is that statement.

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16 minutes ago, Aisling said:

Does it matter how outrageous and obvious the lie is? You can pretty much lie and deny anything and everything and its invalid? 

In my opinion, the type of lie would matter in how the situation escalates. For a very basic example, say Im part of a known group and at the time am just walking around and I stumble onto a group that I know in character who are hostile against mine. Before they approach me I’m talking with my group on the radio and they get close enough to grab me and begin questioning me in things like “Where are your friends?” or “Where’s the rest of your group?” Here I can lie and say that either not sure or that I give them a fake location. From there the takers can either think I’m lying or telling the truth depending on how I answer.

Now let’s say that instead of me just mindlessly walking around I’m part of an attack and my group and I begin running off. I then managed to get stopped by a few people from the group I attacked who weren’t at the situation but they heard over their radio that people fitting this description were seen and I’m wearing that certain look. Here they will have a reasonable suspicion of me lying if I tell them that I’m just passing through or that I don’t know anyone even though they were not there to see personally see the people who attacked.

In both situations I lied to protect my group but both situations had different circumstances to have the questioning but the second situation gives more of a reason to give an execution if it somehow decided.

In my own eyes the current state of this is confusing and will probably need to be looked after again to clarify to those who don’t fully understand it.

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Posted (edited)

I'm just answering the original post, IMO you cant use internal RP reasons to react to a situation without there being a good understanding of who you're character is. Basically, being that your character is a vet who is trained and is "less feared" than most people, then your RP should be the same thing outside of an initiated situation. Meaning, you need to act like a vet, maybe share war stories, be a tough worker, when you get hurt maybe try to figure things out yourself and dont take help (bc you dont want to seem weak). THEN if situations like that arise with known enemies you would be able to react more closely to you're character's personality.

BUT if it's just some asshole bandits then you really cant react at all. You would need to go by the rules solely based on the fact that a new person can't detect you're internalization immediately. I guess there is a small moment you could convey your fearlessness (depending on how the bandits would treat you) but even then you risk a lot of backlash on an RP server.

For myself, any decisions that require "layers" of RP need to be carefully thought out and executed. Even if you're character is a fearless vet he would still consider the well-being of allies based on the repercussions of his actions.

Lastly, if you are entering that realm of RP (which is pretty fucking deep lol) you have to make ALL aspects of that RP believeable at ALL times. People arent gonna give you "breaks" on RP mistakes either.

Could be fun. Will probably be way more stressful than fun. But to each his own. Hope my insight can help some 😛

 

Edited by ErikJones

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All I'm gonna say bud is you can lie through your teeth, but remember your lies and who you told them to. It will bite you in the ass if you dont.

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