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AndreyQ

Executions.

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Yeah this shit is dumb, it’s already been a thing for the longest time that the people being taken hostage have all the power to the point that the hostile rper in the situation can’t do anything. The solution? Let’s give them more power. Genius I say. 
 

Actions have no consequences and this place is becoming more and more like altis life, the last time my story was actually moved forward was directly after the lore wipe, all the people I played with left because everything is pointless now. 

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Eh, I can kind of see where @Roland is coming from. If you know someone is X, then ignore their lies otherwise and treat them as such. In many people's eyes admitting to the truth might put them further in harm's way. 

That being said the comment about being surprised about the gms not siding with the OP suprises me as people have been executed for lying as far back as I can recall. If you want non compliance to be stated as being done so to the detriment of the hostage takers, then you should state it somewhere. As it is, the gms simply verdicted it exactly as it would have been in the past. 

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Posted (edited)

I agree that this puts us all in a bad place, but then again I've been tortured for information I didn't have that my captors where 100% sure I had because they thought I was someone else or that I knew someone I didn't. So I'm really on the fence on this, I get that torture needs to bring a very real element of fear, but in the wrong hands many could get executed for the wrong reasons.

Edited by OldSchool

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There has to be a balance, and both parties should be mature enough to put winning aside for the sake of Roleplay. Every man cracks, theres not one person alive or dead that wouldn't crack in a situation where they're being tortured/interrogated.

For the hostage, its up to him/her to decide what a reasonable amount torture would make him/her crack and/or something/someone being used against him/her for information, like the death of a friend for information. If the hostage knows information to which his attackers know that he/she knows, and decides to not tell them, then that is on him/her and he/she should accept the consequences of his/her actions, for the sake of Roleplay the hostage should tell them and help continue the story, and if he/she refuses and death is threatened and he/she still doesn't crack and is killed for it then the character should be killed permanently otherwise you just create this big circle of events that just repeat itself over and over where the story doesn't continue.

This nonsense of 'I'll decide when my character dies' or 'I don't want to kill my character because I'm involved in so many stories' is just a load of shit, you will constantly be involved in stories if you Roleplay correctly. Everyones life is taken while they are still going about there life, and your characters life should be no different.

On the other hand, attackers should judge if more Roleplay can come before a hostage gives up something, maybe its the first time he/she is captured or perhaps they explore a different avenue, like telling him/her to send a message to his/her group etc, but if the same person is captured over and over with all other avenues explored then the attackers have no other options left but to torture and threaten to kill, there can't be any complaints from the hostages side.

 

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If the lies put your and your group at harm, then you know it can lead to a execution. But the thing is, people execute left and right like it ain't no thang.

You called me a mean word? Executed.

You maybe, possibly where at a place in which my long lost cousin was maybe shot? Executed. 

Oh, I think you died before in a hostile activity but since you were INVOLVED in that hostile activity like 4-6 weeks ago oh and also you called me names, I'm gonna execute you again. And again, for good measure. Pretty sure I have a few "Execution Cards" stocked up from our various FFs or dissing contests even though that's not allowed by the rules but no one really keeps track and I'm sure if I'm reported I can probably pull up something since Staff won't have logs from back then and it'll be considered inconclusive. EXECUTED! 

Remember that one night, in the Caribbean ... You wore that white dress instead of the blue like I asked? EXECUTED!

It kinda gets to a point where people just wait to be executed. They cannot fight back for fear of NVFL (if taken hostage) and a forced perma. And before hand couldn't even lie and had to eat the execution anyways. Like, as a hostage nothing would be enjoyable and it's just a count down until you get a bullet to the head to which you have to shrug off and explain sorta how it happened without remembering the events. The only difference is how long you're willing to put up with the very standard Hostile Experience ©. 

Why should hostileRP'ers be able to execute for any and all lies? Unless they know with 100% Certainty that the information the person is lying about is going to lead to their own deaths/harm or death of their group members then they shouldn't be executing the hostage for it, imo. And if that hostage is not reacting to the TortureRP then report them for BadRP. If the hostage is breaking your demands, talking back, etc etc, then execute away. They're sealing their own fate then.

But, it's a two way street. Sometimes when looking through reports it's as if people are just looking for ways to execute based on OOC feelings from prior events.

Also, it seems people use OOC to confirm IC information. Not talking scars, tatts, facial features, etc. I'm talking Group Affiliations, past encounters and events and other such meta-game like information. If you cannot recall this information ICly then don't tab out to confirm it OOC, imo. Go with what your character believes which is in part what you sorta know. And if you sorta don't know it all, then roll with that. Only tab out to confirm if it's REALLY required, and you know you need to use your rights ASAP as that will further RP.

TBH, this is just a whole mess of people being upset. There's no divide in the hostileRP and the hostageRP unless you make one. No one has more "power" than the other unless you willingly assert your dominance and flaunting of the rules over the other in a scenario. I have had many awesome HostileRP encounters but that is because I allow myself to lose, I allow bad things to happen to my character and then I allow my characters development to extend from that. People refuse to allow something bad happen, or the hostileRP they get is generic, boring, bland and stale and when they offer feedback they're greeted with toxicity and memes making them feel they are invalidated and their experience was nothing more than a easy PvP compilation video clip to add to the montage and some dank gear. 

Why is it when people have a hostile Storyline with others it almost ALWAYS devolves into shit talking the person playing the character they're at odds with, sometimes so thinly disguised as "oh no I mean the character they're playing not them"?  From both a attacker and a defender point of view. How come I see people getting into fights and dropping memes and slurs, insults and flame behind Discord walls about other players based on their IC actions and their moments of frustration during events or scenarios?

The issue is not the rules, but the mindset people have about each other. And nothing will change as long as the mentality of US vs THEM continues. To give you have to get and to get you have to give. You have to lose, you have to want to perma, injuryRP and dissolve and recreate and continue. But you also have to learn to let go. But, that will never happen here. It hasn't happened before, it and won't happen going forward and it sucks to see people slowly slipping into these mindsets as if the world of DayZRP is out to get them when it's really not, it's the approach and handling of different expectations and communication that jumbles things up.

 

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Why not judge the validity of an execution based on the roleplay leading to it?

If an execution is lackluster, boring and uneventful then ideally that would be a terrible and unnecessary execution, however if an execution has depth, nuances of roleplay and an overall feel  to it then I see no reason why it should be disallowed because "Technically this" or "Technically that"

 

We have a staff team, a fairly decent sized one, and I am sure that given someone does put up an "Invalid Execution" report, with videos provided they should be able to draw a picture and come to a consensus on it being a well played out execution or not, thus deciding the validity, much like a jury might hear a plead or explanation of the situation and come to a conclusion on the matter.

 

What I am suggesting is this:

We already trust the staff team to decide when roleplay is considered "BadRP", as such we should be able to trust the staff team with deciding if an execution was played out properly or not, if it was lackluster, terribly executed or generally speaking, invalid.

 

And yeah, I do realise I will probably get some flack for this, I don't know, I feel as if it's my socialist danish side that is putting faith and trust in authority.

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I really don't like this approach to hostages they pretty much can do what they want as long as it doesn't hinder the hostage taker. I get the mentality behind it but at the same time it gives them way to much power to do as they please.

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22 minutes ago, Eagle said:

I really don't like this approach to hostages they pretty much can do what they want as long as it doesn't hinder the hostage taker. I get the mentality behind it but at the same time it gives them way to much power to do as they please.

Basically this, can just bullshit my way out of any situation and you as the aggressor can’t do shit, 

No balance at all 

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I am a little surprised at how much of this seems to come with the pure assumption of unreasonable hostages. You can still ask for execution rights. Trouble is if you ask for those rights and get told if the RP leads there, I don't think I have EVER seen the RP NOT lead there after that question. Which does seem very pushy towards that winning mentality of only if this ends with one of the other side dead my side has won... strange to me though that it feels more like we either all won or we all lost... cause if the RP is not enjoyed by all parties which should be the goal to work towards then we all suffer that consequence.

It sometime can give the impression that unless a reason is found that someone dies to, this rp is pointless? Build up takes time, it needs encounters of stand off and encounters where just nothing happens too to make the finally more meaningful. The end is short and we all know it. The end is death, its no surprise to anyone, we all die one day. But the way we get there should be exciting, fun, sad, full of emotion and twists and turns and not rushed.

Just because no one was ended this time during this encounter doesn't mean the RP went nowhere, rather opposite even since the encounter can actually be remembered. Warn people for the next visit and actually give them that time. Maybe actually just have that scare visit where you really just come to say hello and feel the air. Most visits end up being normal "boring" visits that are seen as stale or not furthering rp can in the long run further it by making the therefore more rare actual hostility a treat rather then a 4 times a day normality. 

 

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14 minutes ago, GreenySmiley said:

I am a little surprised at how much of this seems to come with the pure assumption of unreasonable hostages.

Not an assumption. I've had people try to RDM me to avoid RPing with me, I've had people refuse to log in to further storylines, I've had people claim that hostility in-game is hurting them irl, generally people just crying in DMs over supposed metagaming, powergaming and god knows what else they wanna make up. It happens every other day, after every hostage situation or during it, always.

Even with the Batteries, which was widely considered to be a great hostile group, I and many others dealt with this shit. Its not about the quality of the RP you provide, its about people losing fairly and not liking it so much.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Craig said:

- snip - 

Yeah and the community use to be that way but now you have people that are so salty about not being able to win that they genuinely hate other people. There is no good sportsmanship for the most part anymore and now this ruling just give the salty bois more firepower and reason to not give good RP.

With all that being said I know the issue doesn’t lie solely with those being held up, the ones doing the hostile RP can and do abuse what can be done to an extent but now the person being taken doesn’t have to do jack diddly shit and can get away with anything they want almost. 

Edited by Zero

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Posted (edited)

Personally I think if you want to execute someone you should give them such good rp that they wanna perma their character and if your not giving that level of rp then you shouldn't be doing it. personally im tired of seeing these 3 minute executions or people trying to find every reason in the rules to. Its gross and doesn't belong on the community.

Edited by lunathecat

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4 minutes ago, lunathecat said:

Personally I think if you want to execute someone you should give them such good rp that they wanna perma their character and if your not giving that level of rp then you shouldn't be doing it. personally im tired of seeing these 3 minute executions or people trying to find every reason in the rules to. Its gross and doesn't belong on the community.

Nobody will ever pk a character to people they don't like. Even if the RP is great, they won't be enjoying it because ''No im not roleplaying this encounter, im tired of being held hostage by those people'' mentality is way too fucking present. Sure, you might do it, but you're ONE fish in the ocean, and the ocean is salt water.

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Posted (edited)

Well is the fact they might not pk an excuse not to give good rp cause if so thats silly.
@OiramRP

Edited by lunathecat

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3 minutes ago, lunathecat said:

Well is the fact they might not pk an excuse not to give good rp cause if so thats silly.
@OiramRP

That's no way shape or form what I said.

 

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My profile pictures says everything that can be said about pussios who won't die because they want to be the hero of their story. If they perform a hostile action (I think telling lies that could harm the opposing party is a hostile action) or continue to NVFL when the hostage takers know they're lying, why wouldn't an execution be valid?

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I would like to add my 2 cents as a rather green member of this community.

I support, wholeheartedly, the following post.

3 hours ago, Ducky said:

Why not judge the validity of an execution based on the roleplay leading to it?

If an execution is lackluster, boring and uneventful then ideally that would be a terrible and unnecessary execution, however if an execution has depth, nuances of roleplay and an overall feel  to it then I see no reason why it should be disallowed because "Technically this" or "Technically that"

 

We have a staff team, a fairly decent sized one, and I am sure that given someone does put up an "Invalid Execution" report, with videos provided they should be able to draw a picture and come to a consensus on it being a well played out execution or not, thus deciding the validity, much like a jury might hear a plead or explanation of the situation and come to a conclusion on the matter.

 

What I am suggesting is this:

We already trust the staff team to decide when roleplay is considered "BadRP", as such we should be able to trust the staff team with deciding if an execution was played out properly or not, if it was lackluster, terribly executed or generally speaking, invalid.

 

I have roleplayed in this community a little bit, some a few years back and some more recently. The first time I played I ended up having a few fun encounters. I got help up at green mountain with a group of others, got trapped in the tower for about an hour irl. I helped some people "learn to shoot" as I was playing more of a wildlife ranger type character, and they wanted to try out a gun. I had a small encounter with someone which turned into a full experience and a misunderstanding ended up getting me temp banned for attempted kos. (I shot a guy's leg as "judgement" while my partner was preaching and it fit.)

I've also had poor scenarios back then. I encountered a group that, I kid you not, killed me for wearing a doctor's mask. I was a NW airfield and was just walking along the strip, they rolled up on me, I complied with all demands, and they still killed me. I was upset, but it made sense from a roleplay perspective and I didn't file a report. I probably still wouldn't even though I know that's against the rules now.

The point I think I'm trying to make is that Roleplay is only as good as those involved. If someone only wants to win, then that is what they'll do. They will find a way to win. I always play a more compliant character because ooc I am not good with conflict. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy conflict. The previously mentioned group that raided green mountain while I was there was an amazing group. They handled the situation well, took what they wanted and left everyone alive. 


I think some people are focusing too much on "This can't happen" instead of "Why shouldn't this happen?" or "What could make this happen?"

In my personal opinion, from watching the video of the report mentioned in op's post, I believe the attackers were in the wrong. Not because they shouldn't be allowed to kill because he lied, but because they opted to immediately kill him just because he was lying. In that specific case there was no attempt besides questioning to get more information out of him. There was no way to determine his true identity, and also made up facts, such as claiming the ID he gave them was fake when there's no way they could know if it was fake or not without asking.


That is just one instance, however, and I am aware that people abuse the rules in both directions, but I agree with the general consensus of most of the people posting here. The hostages have too much power. 

I will detail a situation that I believe would be fair play, though I know to be against the rules even though it would be a very reasonable thing to happen.


I am with a partner, partner goes up to an individual or two, holds them up. They comply, are then told there is another individual watching them and if they don't comply, or they kill him, they will be shot. Seems reasonable, no? In the even that the hostage doesn't comply and gets shot by this third party that would be their own fault. With the rules the way they are, they know nothing can be done to them without a quick report and ban for the attackers. This is something that I don't understand. The hostage ALWAYS has the shit end of the stick. That should be true in roleplay as well. If the hostage can turn the tables, then congrats to them, but I feel like the current hostage situation is just too one sided honestly. 

I'd also like to give an example to this. Very recently (last month or two) I had an encounter with two fine gentlemen and another who I'd been travelling with for a few hours prior. He straight up tells me he'd rather die than give up his stuff, which I don't agree with and tell him in character. The two gentlemen mentioned meet up with us later and after a short period of travelling attempt to hold us up. I comply immediately, my travelling companion runs away and proceeds to get into a gunfight with them. I end up dying, from his gunshots. I was robbed of my first real hostile situation since coming back to the community because that guy wanted to keep his gear more than he wanted to be held up. He tried to turn the tables, ended up getting killed, and also killed me in the process. 


I am rambling a bit and apologize, but I love roleplaying and really enjoy most of the time I have interacting with this community. There will never be a perfect solution, because those who want to watch the world burn will always find a way to do so. I just wanted to add my 2 cents and give my personal opinion with some of my experiences with this community as evidence for my opinions, I guess. 

 

I apologize if I am unclear or rambling or off topic.

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Posted (edited)

I think that this discussion has already happened, right here:

 

Good or bad RP is always subjective. The only way to ensure that both parties are having good RP is to ask //permission to PK?

If yes, this should be the only circumstance in which you should be allowed to PK.

And, if they say no, well, there are many ways to progress people's stories, other than PKing others. Be original.

Apart of this, yes, everybody should behave realistically. But, you know? Lying can also be very realistic, and the only way to save your life in some situations! XD!

Edited by William89

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