Jump to content
Server time (UTC): 2019-11-19, 21:47
Sign in to follow this  
SaltySully

Combat Logging addendum

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

4.5 Combat logging is leaving the server during or shortly after a hostile situation or when your character is still involved in active role play. After a hostile action has occurred where you were involved, you may only log out from the game after a minimum of 30 minutes have passed since you broke the line of sight with others involved in that situation. This rule can be ignored if the other players give you OK to log out earlier.

 

The combat logging rule in it's current form is pretty damn good in of itself, really one would think there shouldn't be an addendum added to it but recently after looking through the rules and mulling it over, I had a thought like this;

 

The Combat Logging Rule can apply to those that log on directly out of game for the sole purpose of entering into a current firefight / situation that is occurring where they had last logged off.  It would apply to such situations as; your base is being raided and one boy gets initiated on while everyone else is on another game, this would prevent reinforcements being called and would definitely secure the surprise factor that individuals get when taking on an empty base/settlement.

 

Another situation it could apply to is; someone is getting mugged and they're all alone in a town, their group last logged off in said town and the guy getting mugged notifies everyone in his group before he complies / doesn't, group logs on and kills everyone when they were only expecting one individual, etc.

 

I'm not one for arguments or philosophical debate, it's just a proposal. This will probably be my only post to this thread as I only have grug brain and a massive head ache right about now. Anyways, I implore other members of the community to give their feedback on the proposal as well.

Edited by SullyDat

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, SullyDat said:

-TLDR-

Okay I'm going to nitpick. That's not even anything similar to what combat logging is by definition, but I do agree with you. Just add it under a new rule or fit it under another one that fits better. Just tacking something on under CL would lead to confusion imo, but if it fell under bad-rp or something else then that would make more sense.

Edited by Zero

Share this post


Link to post

To start I agree, but shouldn't using OOC information to log in so you can gank people be under the meta game rule in the first place? If your buds are online and get a quick radio before it's removed that's whatever, but getting supposed "radio chatter" to stop whatever it is outside the game you're doing and logging in should just be straight meta gaming. 
 

Share this post


Link to post

Completely agree. +1

We once attacked -redacted- back in the day. Checked all the nooks and crevices. Only to suddenly have a bunch of people jump us as they were logging in. I'm on board with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Roland's response is pretty straight forward when it's regarding official group members who login to assist in a firefight. Whether it's aggressor or defenders.

 

Speaking upon official group members; not dynamics.

My personal opinion is kinda mixed. I think you should be allowed to login and defend your base, as your character was technically "sleeping". However, I don't think it should be allowed once the enemy has breached the first layer of defense and begins to seek and destroy any opposition. Why? Strictly due to "fair play". A defender shouldn't be logging after the aggressors have cleared a room of potential threats. The issue here is, it would be rolling the dice anytime you login, because unless there's OOC communication to notify your teammates the enemies are inside. You're risking a potential rule violation for shooting them in the back, after they just checked the area. Another risk is the fact that your enemy may straight up KOS you as you're loading in. I don't believe it would fall under "AOGM", since you took that risk. It's not like "AOGM" as if the server crashed and it's a contest on who logs in first mid-situation.

In regards to aggressors, I am strictly against any idea of aggressors logging into a defender's base during the firefight. If they wish to login, they must be outside the compound. If they fall into that criteria they can join into the fight. Though in all honesty, I kinda liked the old rules, where you could only involve yourself in a fight without re-initiation, if you were logged in, and within 500m-800m of the area. 

 

Right now the current rules are (from my unofficial interpretation),

"AOGM"

  • If you're an aggressor, and you login into the defender's base when a firefight is occurring, you're in violation of the AOGM rules.
  • If you're a defender, you may login at any time, to defend your base.

"Meta-gaming"

  • You may not communicate to anyone OOC, unless it's also stated or known In-Character.

So don't be telling your buds OOC you're being held up at your base, if you're incapable of speaking through your radio normally, as if they were logged in.

 

 

Edited by Camo

Share this post


Link to post

I've suggested removing the ability for defenders to login as well before, its not going to happen. If defenders live in a base, they can log out where they please and login to defend as realistically they would be sleeping in the base. As for logging in as an aggressor (which is decide purely based off who initiates) in a place to gain a competitive advantage, for example if you logged inside my base, then your people initiated, then you login inside our base to shoot us, is not allowed and will result in an AOGM ban. No point in changing this rule now, too hard to prove what is happening and how and with only one server you'd be preventing people from logging in to roleplay if there's a fight going on nearby/there's no way for most people to even know the fight is going on. 

Share this post


Link to post

See my issue is when people log in like 10, 20 mins after a firefight has started. Should only allow people to log in 5 minutes after initiation and if the gunfight lasts longer than that not at all. Realistically if a firefight were to breakout you aint taking half hour to be "woken up", your getting up fast. 

Adding to the 5 minute thing they should have to engage in the firefight within that time period as well, so you cant just log in within five then hide away until the time suits you. Five minutes to log in and get involved or it's considered a rule break. Should you log in and not get involved till after five mins are up, just re-initiate. Simple enough.

Share this post


Link to post

Speaking on telling people to hop on because someone initiated on you, much like we use OOC comms as "radios", as long as you say the same thing ingame as you told your friends with an @everyone in discord you should be good.

 

Here is an example:

 

Discord Message - "@everyone we are being raided, there are around five of them, red armbands, I think they are about to rob me."

VOIP (Ingame) - "Bratrí... There are around five people breaking in cladding red armbands, I think they're gonna hold me up."

 

As long as you communicate both ingame and OOC and the message is the same you should be fine, it promotes fair play and allows the attackers to hear that you are calling for reinforcements.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't mind people logging in to help. I do mind people that log in 5 meters from you after already clearing the place.

Share this post


Link to post

As long as you communicate with your reinforcement correctly and in compliance with metagaming and ghosting rules, I see no issue with logging in to help.  Going into a situation as the aggressor, part of the risk associated is potentially not knowing how many people you're actually engaging.

But Ducky and Camo covered it best; as long as you play by the already established rules, I don't take issue with people logging in to help their friends.

Share this post


Link to post

If you're not in the server when initiation drops you shouldn't have kill rights, nor should you be able to log in within a certain distance. We have position logs bring back the old rule that prevented people having a squad of like 10 people logged out. Defending a base is fine, but as a general rule.

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, APositivePara said:

If you're not in the server when initiation drops you shouldn't have kill rights, nor should you be able to log in within a certain distance. We have position logs bring back the old rule that prevented people having a squad of like 10 people logged out. Defending a base is fine, but as a general rule.

Yeah logically, those "logging in" would have been caught sleeping and would be dead already.

Share this post


Link to post
On 10/7/2019 at 12:00 AM, G19RP said:

I've suggested removing the ability for defenders to login as well before, its not going to happen. If defenders live in a base, they can log out where they please and login to defend as realistically they would be sleeping in the base. As for logging in as an aggressor (which is decide purely based off who initiates) in a place to gain a competitive advantage, for example if you logged inside my base, then your people initiated, then you login inside our base to shoot us, is not allowed and will result in an AOGM ban. No point in changing this rule now, too hard to prove what is happening and how and with only one server you'd be preventing people from logging in to roleplay if there's a fight going on nearby/there's no way for most people to even know the fight is going on. 

Gotta say I agree with this dude 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

I think logging in in the middle of a raid is fine as long as the base has not been breached yet. If people are already inside and people start logging in it will be chaotic and it also makes no sense in regards to roleplay when someone just spawns next to you and sprays you down. 

 

Edited by Husky.

Share this post


Link to post

The issue with all resolutions to prevent people from logging in to active situations in their own base is that you could then just park there and prevent them from logging in and RP'ing. Any effort to place a rule preventing people from logging in can be abused to keep people from getting on and being able to play. Intentional or not. 

 

It also leads to the issue of trying to prove that they knew they were logging onto an active situation. Sure, maybe they are in discord and getting fed information and are coming in expecting a fight, or maybe they just logged off in a hub and didn't expect to log into a fight. 

As for attackers abusing it for advantages in a hostile situation, that one is a lot easier, since it takes actual planning to log out in a certain area expecting to log in to a fight, and would be coordinated with the rest of their 'team'. Its harder to make the claim it was an accident, and if people truly did actually accidentally log off in a place their allies are now attacking, they can simply leave the situation without engaging, or simply respect fair play and use their best judgement to avoid breaching the rules. 

Share this post


Link to post

I see the point here and I'm well onboard with defenders not being able to log in during a hostile encounter to assist their friends for a few reasons:

  • it is kind of immersion breaking for people to have cleared a camp lets say and find 2 people, hold them up then get shot in the back because someone just logged in after you initiated.
  • The other reason is, when people log into an active firefight they will need to either initiate or be initiated on before getting involved, but someone on the attacking side might end up just killing them and getting slapped with invalid kill.

Share this post


Link to post

Surely if people log in during a firefight that’s meta gaming? Eg as Realize example….. 2 people in a camp that you clear out then suddenly 5 more log in out of nowhere?

The hard part would be if the same camp was cleared then you see 5 people appearing over the horizon…. That could be meta or could be just people that heard the shots. Id hate to be a GM figuring that one out

So its impossible to just add a rule of no one else can join the firefight as its not that simple

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, andysuter said:

Surely if people log in during a firefight that’s meta gaming? Eg as Realize example….. 2 people in a camp that you clear out then suddenly 5 more log in out of nowhere?

Rolle answered that here. Its perfectly fine for defenders to log in during a fight. 

I'd prefer to add back the old ghosting rule where you can't log in to help your group if the hostile action is taking place within 500m of where you logged. That'd be sweet.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, APositiveElmo said:

I'd prefer to add back the old ghosting rule where you can't log in to help your group if the hostile action is taking place within 500m of where you logged. That'd be sweet.

But what if you login at the place where the enemy is. For example when someone is raiding your base and you just randomly login, see the bastards and shoot them.

There is a lot of gray area in the rules which cant all be filled up.
Cant really think of every different situation.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, JobScholten said:

But what if you login at the place where the enemy is. For example when someone is raiding your base and you just randomly login, see the bastards and shoot them.

Assuming they've done nothing to grant KoS rights on them, you'd be guilty of an invalid kill, as seen in this report here.

Edit: Also, unknowingly logging into a hostile situation obviously can't be punished, there's no guilty mind to supplement the guilty act.

Edited by APositiveElmo

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, APositiveElmo said:

Assuming they've done nothing to grant KoS rights on them, you'd be guilty of an invalid kill, as seen in this report here.

Isn't it if you see someone in your base raiding your stuff a valid right?
Sorry I am not really into the raiding and defending stuff. (most of the times it is just a offline raid)

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, JobScholten said:

Isn't it if you see someone in your base raiding your stuff a valid right?

No, otherwise I'd be able to wait outside my base and as soon as somebody walked up to start hacksawing it, I'd just be able to gas them. It logically makes sense yes but its not conducive to providing roleplay. Of course, if you inform them that they're breaking into your base and ask them to stop but they don't, you are free to kill them assuming that the odds are even/in your favour.

As seen here, once attackers/raiders are aware that they are raiding your base, the rules tend to favour you as a defender:

https://www.dayzrp.com/forums/topic/99637-when-does-it-count-as-breaking-into-a-base-and-when-is-shooting-justified/?do=findComment&comment=1817899

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...