Rule 15 - Permanent Death Discussion

458 posts in this topic

More so than creating a permadeath rule, I think keeping server 3 up and alive is a step in the right direction.  So far I've only played server 3 for a few hours and haven't had any player to player encounters but running around on it scared for your life that you could take shots at any moment was honestly amazing and fun as hell.  I eventually got off because the server population dropped from 4 to 2, but even with the small number of players the intensity level was jacked up so high.

 

A lot of public server players just join servers based off their populations, opting to always join the high pop or full pop servers.  I think server 3s potential has gone totally unrealized because we haven't had an opportunity to fill it up yet.  Once we do, it will naturally fill and replenish it self as it becomes a server on the public players play history.

 

I really think a server 3 event should be organized ASAP, and we should be promoting the more dangerous sort of RP that server three is currently presenting us as an opportunity!

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13 hours ago, MGGenao said:

Should be simple: 3 total valid executions=Forced Perma. Everyone needs to have a valid character page, whitelist backstories need to be more stringent. The execution tally should be permanent or 3-6 months to emulate injuries in a way. The way to track it? Create a staff monitored system where the executors report in their executions and the person's name, staff adds it to the player's count and if they hit 3, they are forced by staff to make a new character. Each character page needs to be approved or at least be acceptable if a staff member happens upon it or reviews it in the case of report.

Edit: If the executed feels in the execution was invalid, they can report as normal and the tally from that encounter is removed or not accepted.

Sounds like this generates a metric butt-ton of more work for the staff.

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Posted (edited)

I'm just gonna throw down my 2 cents since everyone else is. 

As a person who in mod, did a lot of inner rp and had a character that had grown and changed through the ages I can understand why some people don't want this. If you had told me in mod that I was gonna have to perm my character Dr Brandon Tallent I would have been furious. I worked so hard on relationships with people and making close friends. That I would of never let it happen.

But I have changed since then and can understand the view point from those who do want it. As a person who does a lot of hostile rp now days I can say with out a doubt there is no fear from people any more. There is no consequences for what you say or how you act. Well except death but death doesn't seem to bother people now days? People will spew shit over the radio to people they hardly ever met and when they finally are caught by those said people nothing really happens. They normally get executed and continue to go on with shit talking or they like to gloat like this.

"Haha! You didn't get me insert group name here! I knew you guys were shit better luck next time!"

And cycle just continues over and over until one gets tired dealing with the other. I don't know how to fix this problem. I don't know if this new rule will help or not but I feel as long as there are good conditions for a permanent death I would be willing to give it a chance. 

Edited by Dr Brandon
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1 hour ago, Dr Brandon said:

I'm just gonna throw down my 2 cents since everyone else is. 

As a person who in mod, did a lot of inner rp and had a character that had grown and changed through the ages I can understand why some people don't want this. If you had told me in mod that I was gonna have to perm my character Dr Brandon Tallent I would have been furious. I worked so hard on relationships with people and making close friends. That I would of never let it happen.

But I have changed since then and can understand the view point from those who do want it. As a person who does a lot of hostile rp now days I can say with out a doubt there is no fear from people any more. There is no consequences for what you say or how you act. Well except death but death doesn't seem to bother people now days? People will spew shit over the radio to people they hardly ever met and when they finally are caught by those said people nothing really happens. They normally get executed and continue to go on with shit talking or they like to gloat like this.

"Haha! You didn't get me insert group name here! I knew you guys were shit better luck next time!"

And cycle just continues over and over until one gets tired dealing with the other. I don't know how to fix this problem. I don't know if this new rule will help or not but I feel as long as there are good conditions for a permanent death I would be willing to give it a chance. 

I dont think the rule will help its people mentalities, the same people you just described are the same people that will have an uproar when they are forced to perma and find a way to weasel out of it and then we are back to the point of them shit talking about how they were beheaded but survived.

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Posted (edited)

why not just make leaders of factions and groups able to perma death characters? by signing up/joining that group and faction, the leader(s) is allowed to kill or order someone to kill a member if the leader deems it necessary. you still have perma-death, but it is only in a faction/group ecosystem so not everyone can get perma'd, only those that want to. creates good faction rp too. 

Edited by yaBoiChris
typos
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On 1/3/2017 at 7:48 PM, Ender said:

heres a question though lets say hypothetically the rule is in place How long would those rights last? 

heres an example. lets say the rule has been in place since the very beginning. back in February 2016 Sylvester todd took me hostage multiple a few times so through this rule i gained perma death rights on him. Would i still have those rights now?

 

How long would these rights last if a rule like this was in place?

 

*a few times

Though really it is an interesting rule, it would certainly keep hostilities interesting and bring more fear to the world knowing you could get murdered

I'm for it I'd say, the time limit seems appropriate to me, maybe once the timer ends it can be re initiated with a few less hostile actions as there is already a history between these characters or groups, but also having permanent perma-death rights would be quite interesting and make the world feel  much more dangerous for all involved..

I'm down for whatever. the only issue I can see is that some players may not want to perma-kill their characters, as it is theirs and their own decision. Sure having it be made under an OOC decision on whether you can hold these rights would keep people from complaining. it would also keep people from having their characters killed off and from having this new interesting aspect of roleplay. 

I also suppose another issue would be what would keep players from just switching characters or making a new one to prevent their other one being killed off..

There are pros and cons. I'm alright either way I suppose.

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Let's all be frank here, as it stands the RP right now is stale, repetitive and weak. There are no consequences for ANYONE and that's the hostile or passive players. People can be executed day in and day out and still go about shit talking on radio threads or antagonizing others. A permadeath for execution rule adds a very real threat to people's characters.

I would say for those who are worried about bandit players alt hopping to continue hostilities, well without valid IC reasons for the new toon, it should be seen as OOC hate or metagame and should be reported as such. This IS an RP server and as such every interaction should have valid IC reason behind it, Player A shouldn't be allowed to attack Player B, then alt hop to protect his precious character and continue hostilities with Player B. In addition, Player A shouldn't also be allowed to just spit out generic shitty character after character to continue harassing people because he can't be bothered to create deep and meaningful characters, just ones he can throw away to continue to be a generic hostile player.

Some people mentioned any death should equal permadeath, this community is so concerned about their precious toons they would never stand for that let alone barely an execution rights for permadeath rule and in addition, the amount of times people die from random fire fights because of generic hostile RP would probably result in one of two things: A server of cowardly toons hiding in the wilderness avoiding ANY contact without others OR very basic unfleshed out characters. The execution for permadeath version at least implies RP interaction before permadeath and adds weight to each hostility.

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Well, I for one like rules. But, rules that are fair for all players and enforced for all players. This absolutely is geared to hinder only hostile characters. Find a way to make it fair for all roleplay characters. We are already hindered beyond belief with generic, scripted initiations, and rules that protect our victims. Make it fair for all. 

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I've given it a great deal of thought and for the time being I have rushed myself when it comes to this and where I agree that this is indeed a step in the right direction but it is not a definite answer to our problems, much more is needed and now isn't the time.

I am as of now shelving the idea for Rule 15, it shall return but I will leave this thread open as the discussion it has generated is indeed a great boon for the community as a whole.

I would to finish off by saying thank you to everyone who took their time and involved themselves be it for, against or just concerned so thank you all for participating.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Thumper said:

Well, I for one like rules. But, rules that are fair for all players and enforced for all players. This absolutely is geared to hinder only hostile characters. Find a way to make it fair for all roleplay characters. We are already hindered beyond belief with generic, scripted initiations, and rules that protect our victims. Make it fair for all. 

Thats the point. It's supposed to weed out the weak hostile players generating generic or lackluster hostile RP. But its still a two way street, hostile RPers can get execution rights just as much as the next guy and none hostile rpers who fight each other also get the same rights and as such, the same threat. 

Edited by MGGenao
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8 minutes ago, MGGenao said:

Thats the point. It's supposed to weed out the weak hostile players generating generic or lackluster hostile RP. But its still a two way street, hostile RPers can get execution rights just as much as the next guy and none hostile rpers who fight each other also get the same rights and as such, the same threat. 

How about we weed out the weak roleplayers making roleplay stale and stop pointing the finger solely at hostile roleplayers. And how with this rule can I gain rights on a shitty non-hostile roleplayer? I cant. If I am always the aggressor, how do I gain perma rights on non-hostiles? How about if I rob you or harm you or firefight you six time in 60 days and you never catch me for an execution, I get perma rights cause Im simply tired of robbing the same guy over and over?

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If it takes 3 executions then the way it would work: You rob a person, they come back at you well now you both have mutual execution rights and would theoretically be tied 1 for 1, that means you both now have an ongoing hostility with each other and can both work to get that magic 3. 

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12 minutes ago, MGGenao said:

If it takes 3 executions then the way it would work: You rob a person, they come back at you well now you both have mutual execution rights and would theoretically be tied 1 for 1, that means you both now have an ongoing hostility with each other and can both work to get that magic 3. 

I believe one of Thumper's colourfully worded concerns was that a non-aggressive player would never be able to be executed, whilst his aggressive stance would allow him to be executed.

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If the non-aggressive player executes the hostile one, doesn't the hostile player get execution rights in turn?

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12 hours ago, Thumper said:

How about we weed out the weak roleplayers making roleplay stale and stop pointing the finger solely at hostile roleplayers. And how with this rule can I gain rights on a shitty non-hostile roleplayer? I cant. If I am always the aggressor, how do I gain perma rights on non-hostiles? How about if I rob you or harm you or firefight you six time in 60 days and you never catch me for an execution, I get perma rights cause Im simply tired of robbing the same guy over and over?

Seems fair to be honest.

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12 hours ago, Thumper said:

How about we weed out the weak roleplayers making roleplay stale and stop pointing the finger solely at hostile roleplayers. And how with this rule can I gain rights on a shitty non-hostile roleplayer? I cant. If I am always the aggressor, how do I gain perma rights on non-hostiles? How about if I rob you or harm you or firefight you six time in 60 days and you never catch me for an execution, I get perma rights cause Im simply tired of robbing the same guy over and over?

I like this but it could be abused quite a bit. It'd personally be down with this but i don't think many will.

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13 hours ago, Thumper said:

How about we weed out the weak roleplayers making roleplay stale and stop pointing the finger solely at hostile roleplayers. And how with this rule can I gain rights on a shitty non-hostile roleplayer? I cant. If I am always the aggressor, how do I gain perma rights on non-hostiles? How about if I rob you or harm you or firefight you six time in 60 days and you never catch me for an execution, I get perma rights cause Im simply tired of robbing the same guy over and over?

You bring another fair point into this....Pushing to me even more not wanting this rule...It really does "restrict" those hostile RPers from making their mark.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, MGGenao said:

If the non-aggressive player executes the hostile one, doesn't the hostile player get execution rights in turn?

Pretty sure this reply just means you are not really paying attention to the discussion at all.

Execution in this discussion is being considered for bringing permanent death upon the executed, so, prey tell how can a dead person execute the living?

Even with the three rule, which mean what? You have to 'Final solution' someone three times? Because if I recall correctly an execution is supposed to be a last resort, an end to what ever encounters and interactions are being had. Or has that meaning been so lost that it is now casual to just execute someone every time you see them?

Overall the addition of this just seems like it is going to be more of a hindering factor than anything that brings advantage.

Edited by Jm Von Cat
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Wars in DayZ: "Haha, you haven't actually killed any of us."

918ce1db9c.png

Goddamn we need some permadeath around here to stop these radio chatter cucks.

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12 minutes ago, Tosh said:

Wars in DayZ: "Haha, you haven't actually killed any of us."

918ce1db9c.png

Goddamn we need some permadeath around here to stop these radio chatter cucks.

You're goddamn right.

Characters need to be values a lot more than they are now, a more lenient permadeath/permascar rule is a step in the right direction. 

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14 minutes ago, Tosh said:

Wars in DayZ: "Haha, you haven't actually killed any of us."

918ce1db9c.png

Goddamn we need some permadeath around here to stop these radio chatter cucks.

Hit the nail right on the head.

Something really needs to be done about it, and if this solution is going to be shunned away because people want to rob 70 people without consequences or are too attached to their character then at least offer an alternative.

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I'm not even advocating or arguing for a new rule, but perhaps more for common sense to come into play and people admit defeat. You don't even have to permanently kill your character, but don't go full super soldier and pull the same stunts on a daily basis. As far as group wars go, admit your defeat and lick your wounds. Surrender when it becomes too much, and move on. Make treaties, do whatever you have to to ensure survival. But don't get squad wiped and come on the radio claiming to have not lost a single person in your group. "Oh no, those were just people who look like us, claim to be us, and sound like us. But it's totally not us because we're totally alive." Chatting sh it on the radio after your group gets destroyed for the 50th time in a week makes anyone look like such a fuckass, especially when you whine OOC you're tired of dying. Tired of dying? Come to terms with the fact that you can't win IC and (a) surrender, (b) go incognito, (c) archive your group.

* A and B can tie together in the fact of, you don't even need to do a full blown surrender. Deceive whoever it is you're getting fucked by, 'surrender', and keep going about your day. Floor 11 kinda fucked up a few groups and we kept it all IC. The groups all surrendered to us, even though we knew OOCly they were still doing the same shit with our backs turned. Did we care? No, because until we know it IC, we lay off and let them keep doing their own RP. Once we find out, then we have issues. But until then ... guess what? We won't send you on a trip to the coast.
* As far as C goes, I'm not going out of my way to say someone should archive their group. I've talked about it before, but having fun in a game is more important than "winning" in a game that has no end. But if you're not going to accept IC consequences for your IC actions, then you need to rethink your RP. When you can't deal with your IC consequences and keep it IC, don't ask us for an OOC treaty.

For individuals. Permadeath when it makes sense. We all know people get attached to characters, but it eventually comes to a point where your character's walking around looking like Swiss cheese with the amount of bullets they've taken. People use the respawn button as a crutch far too often. I've stated in the past that if I receive good RP and get executed, I'll perma any character I'm using. I don't mind people not permadeathing in massive firefights where things get so chaotic, but in a one-on-one scenario and I put a round of .45 in your head. I'm making sure in every sense that I am killing you. You're not going to miraculously recover, especially not in two hours when I happen to bump into you again. Don't wanna permadeath? Throw your character on the shelf, even if it's just for a few days.

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Posted (edited)

On 1/4/2017 at 5:39 PM, King said:

Something I see being a problem for people is when they die they lose their memories ICly of people. Relationships, friends, family that they had before. But if we had wars which literally cleared entire groups of people out, nobody would know each other.

 

Uh, actually with the new rules that were created upon the new website... You can now remember everything, you just can't seek revenge, or go to the place you died.

On 1/4/2017 at 4:31 PM, Nihoolious said:

No for this simple reason: There is no need to create more rules.

People already do this willingly and therefore there is no need to force everyone else to do this. I do think people should be more open to allowing perma death, but that needs to be their own decision. There should not be some external factor in the form of rules that looms over how people direct their characters. No one should be banned or given points for not wanting to permanently kill the character they have put so much time and effort into.

Ignoring all the abuse and loopholes that result from this, there simply is no need for this. Leave it up to the player. Let them do it themselves, don't bring in an ooc factor in the forum of rules.

Haven't you noticed the constant threads about how the roleplay is shit, and something needs to be done to fix it?!

Evidently, people are not going to be more willing to do what you want them to do. Maybe after a while the rule can be removed, but honestly, this rule is important to push people in the right direction and fix the issue of no one being scared anymore. Don't you see, this new rule is a game changer... for everything. The whole issue of having too many edgy whitenames, the whole issue of having too many people robbing people for fun when they don't have the numbers, and wars being an endless fight where literally no one permadeaths and one of the groups involved archives.

Freedom is nice, but when freedom gets in the way of other's roleplay, it causes literally the issue we have right now. Things aren't going to be perfect, and yeah maybe you think there are too many rules, but imagine from other's perspectives... the ones who are receiving the blunt ends of things... the ones who are receiving terrible, boring, and repeated roleplay. It's a sacrifice you have to make, just like others have made for you to be able to as you wish in game.

What I'm trying to say is, people are not going to be more willing to perma-death... This is something that has been already encouraged by numerous other community members, but it has gotten no where. It would be nice if everyone was able to work together in order to fix some of our issues, but unfortunately that's just not the case.

Edited by Coreena
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37 minutes ago, Coreena said:

Uh, actually with the new rules that were created upon the new website... You can now remember everything, you just can't seek revenge, or go to the place you died.

I actually meant if you permadeathed your character you lose all your IC memories. 

I should have probably mentioned that if it wasn't explicit enough!

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Just now, King said:

I actually meant if you permadeathed your character you lose all your IC memories. 

I should have probably mentioned that if it wasn't explicit enough!

Oh shit, yeah, you're right. My bad xD :c

 

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